The Gen Z Perspective on Media & PR with Amber Sabri of Azhar PR – Podcast Transcript

Lexie Smith  00:03

Welcome to the pitching and sipping podcast, where we talk PR trends and tips over sips and meet a wide range of incredible founders, PR pros and members of the media. I’m Lexie Smith, a former workaholic VP of PR and marketing turned to time entrepreneur, founder of the PR ink business NPR coach, new mama and self proclaimed connoisseur of puns, pizza and wine. I’m a huge believer that knowledge is power and kindness never goes out of style. Think of this show as a way to uplevel your business and career over happy hour. Now let’s get to pitching and sipping. Amber Sabri is a creative consultant and founder and CEO of us who are PR a New York based PR and digital marketing agency that amplifies female founders and minority owned brands in the online space. Throughout all of her career endeavors in industries that have been dominated by the majority, Amber’s mission is to help empower the minority and even the playing field. Welcome, Amber to the show. I’m so excited to have you on I have to also give everyone a little bit of background. But it freakin makes my day when I receive a thoughtful and effective pitch from a PR Pro. And you might be surprised to learn that that’s actually few and far between. Anyways, that’s what I received from Amber and she gets full credit for the topic of today’s show. I just wanted to give you the props up top. But Amber, welcome officially to the pitching and sipping podcast. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for the kind words. It’s always nice as the PR professional to get compliments on a pitch because we’re sending hundreds and 1000s out a week. And it’s nice to know that some are actually good. It was good. It was an immediate yes and forward and you guys listening and watching. Well, we’ll learn why shortly. But first before we get into all of that stuff. Where is home base? And what do you like to do outside of work for fun? Sure. So home base is technically New Jersey, but I kind of pushed myself into New York any chance that I can get so I’m not too far from there. I say on the terms of what I do for fun, it’s a little up in the air. But if we count watching reality TV as a hobby, then I’d say that’s my hobby. 1,000% Okay, so what do you watch? Basically everything on Bravo.

 

Amber Sabri  02:38

I do. I kind of just realized I do my best work when I am binge watching any Bravo show. I just started southern time from the beginning. Earlier lat late last week, and it was like nine o’clock and I’m just like deep typing away on my computer. also listening to the drama in the background. And I’m like, Bravo is what has made me a success. That that is become this has not always been a hobby or habit of mine. But in this new phase of my life, I get basically a break from my husband and child from 730 to like 815 and I turn on reality TV and I work can you not same thing. It’s like great background noise once in a while I’ll peek up and it’s not too distracting. So I 100% feel you on that one. I don’t know southern charm. Not familiar with that. So we’ll have to have that on my, my radar. Okay, so beyond any anything else before I before I move us on any other hobbies and the reality TV show if you watch Vanderpump Rules, are you okay, good. I was gonna say I recommend it to everyone. I’m like, if you’re gonna watch reality TV, you watch Vanderpump Rules,

 

Lexie Smith  03:50

who was just on Mulaney we just had a gal on the show a few episodes.

 

Amber Sabri  03:55

Total told me about the Vanderpump Rules scandal, but I was very late and felt very behind. But I binged all Vanderpump Rules during the beginning of the pandemic. And so now it’s making headlines again. Yeah. So, guys, if you are reality TV show humans. You have now two recommendations or you’ve already watched them and then I guess do you have a third? Another one? Um, I mean any of the housewives really? Like yours? And honestly anything on Bravo, you carry Bravo. This This podcast was paid for by Bravo. Just kidding. I wish maybe. Alright, so you started a successful PR agency at the age of 24 years old, which you guys watching and listening can’t see her but shout out to Our Podcast Producer Kaylee, who’s today is her 24th birthday. Actually, I just connected that.so 24 Wow, okay, talk me through what came before that in life in business that led up to this moment of you

 

Lexie Smith  05:00

launching at such a young age.

 

Amber Sabri  05:01

Yeah, so I will preface this, I did not anticipate this plan happening whatsoever. I always kind of knew I wanted to work in PR. From when I was like 16 years old, my mom used to work in fashion and talked about how she used to work with the PR department, and all the cool designer party she went to. And I was like, Okay, that’s cool. I can’t design. But that’s how you can get into the fashion world. So I pursued that through college, worked in house, worked at boutique agencies worked at larger agencies. And I was just like, okay, yes, PR is my thing, I’m going to do that. And then when I graduated, I worked in house for a pretty decently large fashion brand for a little bit. It was just like a freelance job, and I loved it and eventually moved on to the corporate world. That is kind of where I think a lot of change in my perspective happened. It was a great agency, I learned so much. And honestly 90% of like my business operations. I learned from how I worked at that agency. But I was working on the consumer side there. And I always wanted to be in fashion or beauty. So I was like, I’ll do it, I’ll try and find a new job. And then I was there for about a year until I was like, You know what I don’t feel like I’m using my creative juices. I got into PR because there’s the creative campaigns, the cool pitches, but the brands I worked with were pretty well established, you didn’t really need to do much everyone already knew who they were. So we I felt like we were very reactive and not so proactive. So luckily enough, it was the pandemic, October 2020. I was like, Look, I live at home, I don’t have many expenses. Why don’t I just quit finding another job that I’ll like, and I’ll enjoy and I’m not feeling so like about it. So I quit that job in October 2020. And then decided while I was on the job hunt, maybe we’ll start freelancing like I have a decent idea of what you do. So coincidentally enough, literally, I think it was either that day or the next day. I South Asian fashion brand posted on their Instagram story, they were looking for PR help. And I was like, Okay, this was a sign let’s do it. reached out to them. We started working together. And things just kind of started to snowball. I hadn’t maybe like two or three clients for like the first eight months. But that first fashion brand ended up going to New York Fashion Week, I made so many more connections. And then it just kind of seemed dumb not to pursue it and to go back into working for another agency. And I had a long conversation with my mom and my brother. And they’re like, you’re 24 What do you have to lose, you can always go back and I was like, You’re right. I love working with the clients that I had at the time. I’d love to continue to build that roster out and work with more brands. So October 2021. I gave myself the October 1 deadline. If I’m going to do it, I have to do it on that day I launched and here we are.

 

Lexie Smith  08:00

Oh my gosh, all the claps i Your hell yes. I’m a big, big, big, big, big fan of. And so soap box that age is just a number. And that. That being said, I do want to highlight and give you so much kudos for taking on such a big step at a technically speaking younger age. In your career. There’s I just Yes, I’ve had my own career started off pretty young in it in a different way. I didn’t launch my agency, but I had some more roles that were above my tenure. So to say so I long story long, I firmly firmly believe in the power of launching a career at any age. Okay, so, so a PR, first tell me about the name and then tell me what does it look like today? Who do you service and what services do you offer?

 

Amber Sabri  08:53

Sure. So the name comes from my mom’s maiden name. Actually, I wanted the agency to have like a personal connection. But I didn’t want to be like Amber’s agency. I’m like, I don’t need that much attention on me. And I was thinking about it for a long time. I was calling my best friend, her mom, her dad, all of everyone. Like I need ideas. And then literally just sitting on the couch next to my mom. She goes What about us her? And I was like, Oh, that looks that sounds so nice as her PR it kind of rhymes. And it’s an order word and it means radiant or luminous. And it kind of coincidentally tied into like the mission of I wanted to eliminate these minority owned brands and female founders and it all just kind of fell into place. So to answer your second question, now we offer kind of everything really we do traditional PR we do a lot of podcasts PR for founders and creators, influencer marketing, event management, digital marketing, we help brands with any of their launch strategies, whether it’s a rebrand or starting from the very beginning. We kind of cover everything. And we really like to focus on female founders or minority founders basically just want to help those people that aren’t really given that first place. Place, I guess, and really lifting them up and getting them a lot further in the ranks.

 

Lexie Smith  10:17

Beautiful. Okay, so that segues perfectly, I want to dive straight into the topic that you submitted for this show, which was the Gen Z perspective on the ever changing media landscape. So good. So first, maybe everyone listening thinks this is obvious. But I wanted to clarify and put things into perspective a little bit. So I went to a good friend Google, and I pulled some some date ranges. Okay, I am a millennial, which means Google told me a millennial is anyone born from 1981 to 1996? Above millennials, we have Gen X. So if you’re born before 1981, and then below millennials is Gen Z, which is 1997 to 2012. So first, I don’t want to assume but where do you fall within those generations?

 

Amber Sabri  11:15

So I technically fall in the Gen Z, I’m 1997. But I do find because I have an older brother, I think I also kind of relate to the millennials a little bit. So I’m very much that is millennial cusp, where I big tech girl, but I also remember life without technology. Okay,

 

Lexie Smith  11:35

okay, that’s a real thing, for sure. So let’s dive in now knowing that but when you submitted this topic, kind of what was coming to your mind? So broadly speaking, let’s let’s start there. What is the Gen Z perspective on the ever changing media

 

Amber Sabri  11:50

landscape? Well, this kind of came to mind, because as I was kind of talking to a lot of new business, and I was pitching these other potential clients, and a lot of times the way I work there, a lot of small businesses, so budget is a little tight. So maybe they want to sign on for everything. And I’m like, Look, if this is your budget, the best return is this, this and this service, let’s dial it down a little as your budget grows, the scope can grow. So a lot of times, everyone’s always wants that traditional PR, which it’s kind of that that big thing. Everyone wants to be in vogue, everyone wants to be informed. And there are some times where I talk to these small businesses. And I’m like, I don’t think this is the right move for you right now. I think with Gen Z, they are so focused on community and authentic interactions and kind of having that forward facing reaction with founders that I was like, You know what I think I people who are kind of my age and below relate to this when I talk to them. And then when I’m talking to people that are millennials are older and they’re starting their businesses. They’re still like, I want to be magazines, and I have to remind them, half of them don’t print anymore. So yes, obviously, as a publicist, I love magazines. I’m still subscribed to all the newsletters, read them daily, but I know I’m kind of rare in my generation, everyone’s looking on Tik Tok. Everyone’s looking on kind of Instagram. But that’s kind of what inspired the topic.

 

Lexie Smith  13:17

To che, and it makes got we’re in such a I’m actually going to bring this right now because it’s very relevant. You you highlighted, a lot of these magazines aren’t even printing we are in circa 2023. Such a quickly evolving media landscape when we talk about the traditional outlets. Even this year alone, this calendar year, we’ve seen layoff after layoff after layoff after layoff due to a lot of things but also AI. So that kind of I just wanted to preface that in supporting what you’re talking about regarding that might not always be the most strategic call is going after the more traditional outlets. So is it just tick tock then what is the most strategic call?

 

Amber Sabri  14:03

I think like leaning into social media, in any sense, is a really good way to really target that Gen Z audience. Like I said, if you’re Gen Z, a lot of them, I can’t remember the exact percentage I remember reading, but a good majority of them use tick tock as their Google. SEO is the biggest thing. Even Instagram has started implementing that if you’re a creator, they’re telling you to add these SEO terms so that you’re more searchable. So I recommend a lot of times for any client that has a small budget, but they want to make that impact. How can we build a community and I usually recommend we do that through social media working with creators or just authentic just genuine people who are already customers and events I have found. Back in February, I hosted a gifting suite for my clients we just set up we invited a bunch of media creators, creators we’ve previously worked with creators we’ve never worked with. And I found And we had such a bigger impact after that gifting suite in the feedback that we got the posts that we got, even the media interest that we got, because they got that one on one interaction with the founder seeing the product, and it was just a lot more authentic. Because me telling my story about my agency, obviously, it seems a lot more authentic than if I had like a spokesperson. And I think that authenticity and interacting with them, so on like, focusing on them, and building that community makes such a bigger impact that that is nine times out of 10 What I recommend first, above traditional PR,

 

Lexie Smith  15:39

you know that I send out a community newsletter roundup every Tuesday, chocked full of resources, free media kit, downloads, event invites, journalists, contacts, visibility opportunities, basically, if you’re not on the list, hit pause and sign up. It’s super simple. Go to the PR bar inc.com/newsworthy. That link is in the show notes. Okay, back to the show. So when you say creator, just to confirm, can we also assume essentially, that’s the more the better word to call an influencer?

 

Amber Sabri  16:16

Yeah, I use them kind of interchangeably. But I also find that there are influencers. And then there are also creators, I think there are people who just create content, and it’s not directly influencing. But if you’re someone who just likes the aesthetics, the Pinterest creators, they’re not influencers. And then I also feel like with tick tock, anyone can kind of blow up. Anyone can create content that we have. Also, we do a lot of product giftings for our clients. And we found that if we see a brand or someone just anyone really on Tik Tok, talking about a similar product or talking about their concern, we’re going to reach out to them to see if we can send them a product. They’re not an influencer, but they create this content. everyone kind of has that ability to go viral, that we kind of just lay it out and lay the terms that anyone can really get product because everyone creates content at this point.

 

Lexie Smith  17:12

So if you are working with small business, and you know there’s budget limitations, and let’s say you decide all right, we have 100 giftable products that we’ve allotted for this this year. In that sense, how would you go about prioritizing or selecting which creators to give to

 

Amber Sabri  17:32

so we normally do it in like a 5050 sense of who are the people that are actively engaging in either our content already are very similar content, or maybe just like our competitor who’s also working with them. We look into who, who needs there, who has needs that need to be filled that our product can do, and then who does creates nice content, and you can see that there is like engagement there. Even if they’re not a creator, you could still see someone having 50 Plus comments, so we kind of divvy it up that way. A lot of times we split it between Tik Tok and Instagram because most Gen Z is on Tik Tok. But I do still find Instagram. I tell this to people, I feel like Instagram is like the LinkedIn for creators. Everyone still goes back to Instagram, you always have that. So I always think it’s good to have a place there. Even if most of your audience is on Tik Tok, because they’re always gonna go back and forth. grew up that way.

 

Lexie Smith  18:34

Okay, so next question, are you finding? Let me rephrase. How do you approach with gifting? Are you running into people who want payment? Are you prophesying it upfront that you’re willing to offer payment? Are you asking for stipulations talk me through what that process looks like.

 

Amber Sabri  18:55

We’re very open with the fact that this is a small business, we don’t have budget, we would love to send you this product for you to try it out. Of obviously, we would appreciate if you post but if not, we totally understand. And we kind of go about that in the respectful way, we find that if we’re not pushing them to post, if they actually liked the product, they’re gonna post it and at the end of the day, that’s what we want. If someone just posted an Instagram story of here’s the PR that I got not as impactful as if they actually try the product. And then they’ve posted it three times later. And they’re like, Oh, my God, I actually love this so much. So we would rather just build that relationship of being respectful of them, their time, the content, they create their work, and just get in the door that way. And just continue the conversation. We do check ins every like month or two and be like, Hey, did you get to try out the product? How’s it going? And just being really respectful and we find that we get a lot of that respect in return.

 

Lexie Smith  19:49

Now, are you on the brand side on the client side? Are a lot of your client clients, the founders also Gen Z or are they in various group? to

 

Amber Sabri  20:01

various groups, a lot of them actually are a bit older than me. So they’re either millennials and I think I’ve had one or two that I, either late Millennials or like early gen x. So I think they’re a little trusting of understanding I am younger. So I understand the social media, they come to me because they don’t understand that landscapes where I was

 

Lexie Smith  20:19

headed. Yeah, I was like, what’s the are they understanding? Because I, there’s a lot of pressure in PR, often to, to provide something tangible in terms of a return. So if you’re not, for example, giving a creator a coupon code, you know, how are you going about tracking the success of your campaigns,

 

Amber Sabri  20:42

we kind of track the success, we do give them coupon codes or affiliate links, whatever way we can, because obviously, that is a little bit more of an incentive. But we measure that success with how often are they still engaging with our content and posting with it. So after that gifting suite, there’s one influencer that I constantly see she’s still posting about the products that she was able to get from that gifting suite. And it’s been two, almost three months. So kind of seeing that we’re constantly seeing that engagement. Although it may not be like a direct, sorry, my light was just flickering, you’re totally fine. Even though we’re not seeing like a direct like analytics of like, this is the reach this is the impressions, but we’re seeing her name over and over and over again, we know that we made an impact there. And that’s a relationship you can continue to nurture. So we kind of lean in that way in terms of finding out what is successful.

 

Lexie Smith  21:34

Now this might be a this may be this is very isn’t a difficult question. You get to leverage to your point, you call this out that you are a younger generation. What if purely, I’m an old person, quicks girl, I was at the park with my daughter the other day, and I asked the kids help how old old is to them? And they said, 20, and I was like, Okay, so I’m a grandma. Cool. Anyways, so if us old people or, you know, millennials, Gen X, want to communicate to our clients this strategy, but we can’t say, Look, I’m Gen X, trust me. Do you have any advice? You know, are there are there places you go to gather statistics that we could help leverage to make up for the lack of us not being Gen Z?

 

Amber Sabri  22:24

I think it kind of helps. I do use somewhat of statistics, or I bring up some points that I read in articles or newsletters or whatever. And I kind of tell them, I’m like, Look, this is your product, we’ve established that your audience kind of leaned on to Gen Z. So we need to lean into what are their buying habits, what are their consuming habits, whether it’s social media, traditional PR, whatever. So I’ve been lucky enough where a lot of my clients, their target market is Gen Z. So it works out that I can tell them, Look, we see through our work that this has been successful. If we do this kind of social strategy. Gen Z is really leaning into Tic Toc, or they’re leaning into this, let’s move there. But sometimes we’ll get pushback, and I’ll tell them and like flip, flip split 5050, we’ll do a little bit your way and a little bit our way and then we can regroup and re strategize. I know sometimes because people always they still want that traditional PR. So I will say okay, let’s give it a try. I don’t want to completely shut you down, because that’s what you want. At the end of the day. I’m providing services to fill your wants. So we do it that way. And then I offer like, let’s just re strategize and really take a look at what’s working. Normally by then they’re understanding and they’re like, Okay, I see we understand. So it kind of like overly communicate about the generation and their consumers and their audience. And luckily enough, that’s been pretty effective so far.

 

Lexie Smith  23:49

Yeah, I love it. You’re brilliant. I’m on board. Sign me up. Wait, I’m not a fashion client. Okay, so this begs another conversation that is not new, but is evolving. And I want to hear your perspective specifically on it. The lines between the categories of firms so digital marketing, social media, marketing firms, PR firms, how do you foresee those lines, blurring those lines, not blurring the technical differences evolving in the next five or 10 years? Like is PR just going to become helping people mainly figure out how to engage in create authentic conversations on social media? Therefore merging the roles of social media and PR are just kind of high level? Do you have any thoughts in that category?

 

Amber Sabri  24:40

I think it’s gonna evolve just a little bit more digitally. I don’t think PR is gonna kind of like cease to exist or focus primarily on social media. I think we’re seeing it now where a lot of traditional PR can be turned into podcast PR. We’re seeing a lot of people are being forward facing founders. That’s the way that they’re really conveying their message. So, podcasts are everywhere, people are leaning into that. And that’s very much evergreen content and so searchable. Obviously, traditional PR, everyone still wants that, it’s still kind of holds that in the back of our minds, we’re like, we still feel so much more credible. If we were quoted in Forbes, or we were quoted in refinery 29. So I think it’s still there. I think it’s going to focus more on the founder, the brand story, and it is going to be more of that expert commentary and that podcast appearance, I think the lines are gonna blur a little in terms of like how we work with influencers, and that’s going to be a little PR versus digital marketing. But I do still see a little bit of a divide there. When I think of digital marketing, that’s email newsletters, SMS marketing, kind of like the more like digital advertising, I guess, I think that’s where you can see a little bit harsher of a divide. But there is definitely a little bit of overlap. I’ve worked with digital marketing agencies where we have our own kind of scope of work that overlaps. And we have to clearly define what does that mean for each of us. But I that’s kind of where I see it going in the next five to 10 years. Really?

 

Lexie Smith  26:11

Yeah, I don’t disagree with anything with everything that you just said. I don’t disagree with anything you just said. That’s what I meant to say. Um, so last question on this line of thinking or this train of thinking, in terms of influencers. So when we do bridge over from a creator to an influencer, an influencer in the sense of which I’m using it, someone with a larger following? Are you still running into seeing that there’s a paywall of sorts to work with them?

 

Amber Sabri  26:44

Yeah, I actually think there’s even more of a paywall because of Tik Tok, and I’m very iffy on Tik Tok a little bit like I love it. But in terms of the Creator world and influencers, I think it’s kind of made our jobs a little tougher. When we look at those OG influencers, they started by organically sharing like, Okay, think of the videos already showing the products that they were using how they did they make a protein. And then brands were like, Oh, this is something we could leverage, they have a good following. Let’s lean into that. Let’s work with them. Now, I think, because influencing has been such a big thing. So many kids these days want to be influencers. It’s not even like I want to be a teacher or a doctor, that tick tock is a kind of ruin that where everyone kind of feels like they need to be paid right away, which I’m all for paying graders and giving them credit for the work that they do, because it is hard work. But there is also of, yes, we want to build a relationship with them that they need to build a relationship with us. It’s not one sided. It’s a two way street, because it’s so authentic. If anything, we want to know your feedback on the product. So I think there is a big paywall that we’re seeing, but it’s a little bit of like trying to navigate that conversation of we’d love to start this relationship. We don’t want to jump into anything because we don’t want you pushing something that isn’t genuine to you. And you don’t want to push something to your audience that you don’t even care about just because you’re paying for it getting paid for it. So the paywall issue is there. And it’s a little tricky navigating that conversation. But it’s always worth having because we want to keep that community that authentic Ness, the genuine conversation there and we don’t want to lose.

 

Lexie Smith  28:29

So this is very broad, but to kind of speak to maybe how one of those conversations might go or to kind of recap maybe what I’m hearing, would it be Hey, Sarah, we’re naming the influencer Sarah. Hi, Sarah. You know, I respect you’re an influencer or not those words, whatever. Intro intro, we’d love to have you experienced the product first before we kind of engage in any sort of official paid relationship and that’s prefaced upfront, or what is the language do you have any language you can offer broadly, that’s helpful in navigating when you just first up hit a paywall?

 

Amber Sabri  29:12

That is kind of the conversation that we go it kind of is we love your content, we think it’s really great. We think our product would be a great fit, we’d love to send it to you and see how you like it and explore opportunities in the future. Even say like we don’t have campaigns right now but we’d love to build that relationship now. I think really just being transparent. We don’t have something right now but we want to keep you in mind for the future and make it known that you were reached out to for a reason and we just want to make sure that from both sides it works out

 

Lexie Smith  29:42

beautiful any and then quick I lied. This is my last question on this any absolutely do not do this in terms of creator influencer relationships and social media things that people should avoid if they’re just dipping into This world.

 

Amber Sabri  30:01

And then on the Creator side, if anyone’s listening, don’t shut down brands just because they’re gifting product, build that relationship that will do you so much better than if you don’t even build that relationship. Think of it as networking, just because maybe you may not be offering me something too, right now, in the future, it could lead to anything. It’s all networking in terms of like the gifting. And then on the brand side, don’t I think this happens a lot for some of the older generations is Don’t look down on the influencers, they are our colleagues, we’re in the same industry, we’re on the same team, with the same goals of building the audience, building that community, they’re just a gateway to get to that community. So don’t look down on the content they create or the work that they do. Because it is so impactful for us.

 

Lexie Smith  30:51

Yeah, and I think there’s a lot of that this specific topic really highlights the difference in generations. And what I’m hearing you saying is really kind of a bridging of of generation that helping us all understand that we’re in this together. So bridge, I love it. Okay, so I have to ask, we’ve talked, tick tock and kind of pitch it Yeah, we talk pitching pitching tick tock. What can we find you sipping? What is your favorite beverage? alcoholic or non alcoholic? Of course,

 

Amber Sabri  31:22

if there’s any opportunity for me to get a drink, I’m drinking a coke it just any time of the day? Doesn’t matter where I am. If I see a coke on the menu, I have to get a coke.

 

Lexie Smith  31:32

No, see, I feel like that’s not very Gen Z. Have you?

 

Amber Sabri  31:35

I agree. That’s where my millennialist shines through. I have I’m come from a family that loves McDonald’s and we love Coke. Oh my gosh, all I’m drinking that’s all I’m eating if I could all day every day.

 

Lexie Smith  31:48

So healthy. Just kidding. I have way worse. First, I did. I like Diet Coke. I love me a good diet coke once in a while. So. But coke bn, like the

 

Amber Sabri  31:57

sugar classic. got a sweet tooth.

 

Lexie Smith  32:02

Fair enough. Fair enough. So last question for you today is where can people go to connect with you and to learn more about your firm and explore your services?

 

Amber Sabri  32:11

Yeah, well, you can find us on our website as her pr.com We have Instagram. We’re on Pinterest, LinkedIn as her public relations on all of those. And if you want to connect with me directly, I’m on Instagram, Miss Amber Sabri always open in the DMS. I always love chatting with people, especially in this industry. So don’t be shy.

 

Lexie Smith  32:31

This was a funnel I’m feeling very personally enlightened from this conversation. I felt this was very refreshing and really, really helpful. So thank you again for your your thoughtful pitch and for coming on the pitching and sipping podcast. Until next time, everyone. Cheers. Hey guys, if you are enjoying the pitching and sipping podcast, please do me a huge favor and leave a review wherever you are listening. If you want to connect with me to learn more about the PR bar Inc. You can do so on Instagram Act, the PR bar underscore Inc. Or you can check out my website at the PR bar inc.com Cheers