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Multimedia Storytelling & Interview Hacks with Forbes Contributor & Filmmaker Jia Wertz – Podcast Transcript

Episode 43 – Pitchin’ and Sippin’ – Multimedia Storytelling & Interview Hacks with Forbes Contributor & Filmmaker Jia Wertz

SPEAKERS

Jia Wertz, Lexie Smith

Lexie Smith 

I connected with Jia through the dreamers and doers community shout out to Gesche Episode 34. And the more I learned about this incredible woman, the more I knew I needed to have her on the show. So thank you for obliging, Jia. I am so excited to have you here today. I want to kick us off with a few personal questions before diving into all things business. So first, where is home base? And what do you like to do outside of work for fun?

Jia Wertz 

Sure, so I’m from Calgary, Alberta in Canada, but I live in New York City. So in new york city is home base and has been for quite some time. And what do I do outside of work for fun, you know, I have a four year old and so I spend all my free time with him. And then I work every second that I can in between so I would say mostly just playing with him which consists of Hot Wheels, unfortunately, most of the time. 

Lexie Smith 

I was a big Hot Wheels fan, but I also had like a Barbie dream castle. So I was very both worlds.

Jia Wertz 

I wish I so I grew up with two brothers. And so I also played Hot Wheels and GI Joe and all of that with them all the time. And then Barbie like was my dream world. And I still to this day love Barbie and I wish my son did so I could play with him.

Lexie Smith 

No, but Hot Wheels are super fun. It’s actually I didn’t realize those were still around, which is great. 

Jia Wertz 

see, oh my god, they’re everywhere.

 Jia Wertz 

if you’d like one.

Lexie Smith 

Amazing I have three nephews. But I don’t live in that same state with them sadly. So when I do see them, it’s usually a holiday or an occasion and they’re crazy running around. So I guess I don’t really know which now that I’m saying this is a little sad, what they play with toy wise.

Jia Wertz 

 next time you visit them show up with like three of those 10 packs of Hot Wheels, which are only like 10 bucks a pack, they will be over the moon like

Lexie Smith 

awesome, yes. Amazing. I’m always competing with my sister to be the cooler and so thank you. So besides being a mom, you also are an award winning director and filmmaker, a podcast host, an entrepreneur, a fashion designer, and a featured writer for Forbes. So needless to say you are a woman of very many talents. I’d love to rewind time a bit, and hear just a little bit more high level about your journey. So of all these things, what came first and kind of help us connect the dots there?

 Jia Wertz 

Yeah, for sure. This might be a little bit of a long answer. But please stop me anytime you want. I first went to college to study fashion management and merchandising. And then I entered the fashion industry and worked in the fashion industry for about 18 to almost 20 years. And then I launched my own business Studio 15, which is a women’s apparel brand. And I still do that today. But I do it more kind of on the side. Because around 2014 I listened to the serial podcast, and like most of the world got really fascinated with a non side story. And while the podcast was super entertaining, and I loved serial, I felt really, really terrible and heartbroken for Anon because I thought while the world is being entertained by a story, he’s still sitting in prison. And I don’t know if you’ve listened to serial, but it’s about a guy who was wrongfully convicted of a murder that he didn’t commit. And so I wanted to help so I decided to hold a fundraiser in New York City to raise some money for his legal defense fund. And in that process, I ended up meeting Don’s family. And after meeting his family, I was added nons post conviction hearing. And at that hearing, I saw a camera crew filming. And I had been kind of racking my brain for quite some time trying to decide what I could do to help people who have been wrongfully convicted. I was really passionate about the cause. But I didn’t know what I could really do to help these people. I’m not a lawyer, you know, I had no experience that would kind of lend itself to helping these people. And then when I was added nons post conviction hearing and I saw this film crew filming, the family ended up telling us that they were filming an HBO documentary called the case against it not inside. And in my completely naive mind knowing nothing about the film industry at all. I had 20 years experience doing photography. So I knew my way around a camera that I had no experience in that industry in the film industry. I probably went home and told my husband You know, I’m gonna make movies. I want to make movies about people who’ve been wrongfully convicted. If HBO can do it with three people that I can definitely get two friends together and do this thing. And you know, of course, of course behind the scenes, not that one day that was just a snapshot in time. There’s hundreds of people who worked on that HBO Doc, it’s not three people that I didn’t know that, and thank God I didn’t, because I would have been deterred. And instead, I was empowered to run home and enroll in New York Film Academy, and learn documentary filmmaking skills. And then I just started filming. And I started making my own documentary, which within a year, ended up on amazon prime, and then 14 film festivals, and it won some awards, and it kind of took on a life of its own. And so that’s how I went from doing all those other things to filmmaking.

 Lexie Smith 

Wow. Okay, I feel like even your life could be a documentary and itself. Um, I have not seen that or seen or heard that particular podcast. But true crime is the types of podcasts that I am listening to. for fun, so very intrigued into that world. It definitely has up maybe that was the moment maybe it was the 2014 moment you’re talking about that the world really became fascinated with to crime. And I feel like there’s so many documentaries now that are coming out. So I’m just obsessed with what you’re doing. And I’m like, gonna live vicariously through you over here. I know you also have besides film launched a podcast, is that correct?

Jia Wertz 

Yeah, that’s right. And I have to say that you’re 100%, right, that serial podcast in 2014, or 2015,  Is the podcast put podcast on the map. That is what kind of got everybody into this new format of kind of like new radio shows, almost, you know. So that is the one that kind of catapulted that. And then as a result of my documentary being out there, I got approached by these two guys, john and Jeff, who run a podcast called speaking of crime, and they asked me to be a co host. And so I ended up because it’s true crime, and it related exactly with what I was now doing. I thought, well, this can only help if I’m more involved in this kind of stuff. And so I joined their podcast and actually, just a couple weeks ago, we revamped the whole thing. We redid everything from the logo to the strategy, and now they’re almost like audio documentaries. It’s, it’s used to be interviews and it’s no longer that and we’re covering the Gaby petitto case, which you know, everybody, you know, every body knows, so we just launched our episode last night about Brian’s whereabouts. And so that’s what we’re covering right now on speaking of crime.

 Lexie Smith 

Brb, everyone, we’re gonna stop this recording because I now need to go listen to that right now. Oh, my gosh, what is the actual podcast called?

 Jia Wertz 

Speaking of crime.

 Lexie Smith 

Speaking of crime, okay, so do not worry, my fellow True Crime friends, we will put that in the show notes. And then just for my own personal, selfish reasons, do you have any other favorite True Crime podcasts that you listen to or suggest I’m always looking for new ones.

 Jia Wertz 

you know, there’s one on my list that I really want to listen to called Cold. And then John, who I do the podcast with said Dr. Death is he said, It was amazing. And I haven’t heard either of those, but they’re on my list to get to. But I will say that I’m much more of a visual person for what I consume. So I consume a lot more TV shows and documentaries than I do podcasts. So my list of shows to watch is so long. I don’t know when I’m going to get these podcasts.

 Lexie Smith 

my true crime podcasts come usually when I’m like folding laundry, or doing chores, or I can’t be in front of the television, but I consume, consume it all. And actually, that kind of teed me up for a question I wanted to get in with you today. You know, a through line in your career is a love and talent for storytelling, right. And you do so via filming video, and audio, and also through the written word, I’d love to know if the elements of showcasing or crafting or sharing a great story are the same, regardless of the published medium, or if you notice, or see slight nuances involved across the platforms.

 Jia Wertz 

So I noticed a lot of nuances across the platforms. When you’re doing like a podcast, for example, even if you’re scripting it as we do now, it has to be written in a very conversational manner. Whereas when I read a Forbes article, it is like just factual and business writing, right? It’s it’s not a fun read. It’s a very informative read and a learning experience. So they’re completely different writing experiences all say, same with when I’m making documentaries. They’re really really interesting. A thing I’ve learned about you know, in the process when I made my documentary is that with when you make movies or TV shows, you write scripts, and script writing is a whole nother you know, ballgame. But with documentaries, you don’t write scripts until after you’ve conducted all of your interviews because you take all the interviews and then you take the sound bites you want and you compile a script from the videos you’ve shot and the interviews you’ve done. So it’s backwards. And so that’s a whole different right experience and it’s really fun. But it’s, it’s almost like you have 1000 puzzle pieces in front of you and you’re trying to put that puzzle together to make a script in the right order with the right storytelling, the story arc, so they’re all three so vastly different

 Lexie Smith 

in the preparation process for all three. So again, we’ll just narrow that down to audio, documentary slash film, and written. Is the preparation of interview compiling interview questions similar, or how do you go about figuring out what to ask?

 Jia Wertz 

Yes, that is actually very similar. And that’s a really good point, it’s very, very similar. It’s slightly different when I write for Forbes just because it is business writing, which is very different than the personal stories that we would tell in a film or you know, in a podcast. But the he learned a couple amazing tips in the filmmaking process, that when crafting interview questions, you should ask the question, you should ask the question or frame the question, I should say, in a manner that’s really asking the person how they felt when something occurred, instead of asking them what occurred. So you know, instead of me saying, you know, tell me about the time that, you know, you lost this loved one, you know, instead you would say, put yourself back in the moment when you found out you lost his loved one, how are you feeling? And how did you find out and then you get the what happened, but you get it in a much more, the response is a much more personal response, and then much more relatable response and, and usually not somebodies rehearsed response that they’ve said 1000 times before. So the response you get just has a lot more kind of feeling behind it, if you will. So it’s been really interesting.

 Lexie Smith 

Wow, I, you know, and I’m running through my mind all the different kind of interview series that I watched from my trashy reality TV shows, to my more, you know, esteemed crime documentaries. And you’re right, they do really do open up about emotions, and the experience of it all in a very different way, than maybe a traditional press interview that you might see on on TV. And so that question, while that’s a simple tweak, clearly makes a very huge difference. And I’ve never thought about that. So thank you for sharing that.

 Jia Wertz 

Of course, I learned it from a professor at New York Film Academy, and I also just stuck with me, I was like, Wow, that is such a simple little change that makes such a huge difference in the response that you get from people

 Lexie Smith 

Really that shift from what happened to how did this make you feel big? That’s huge. So you’ve mentioned a couple times, Forbes, I’d love to dive in there. What the first question I have is, knowing Okay, you started in Studio 15 in fashion, and you really got drawn into the documentary film making world where did Forbes and business writing come in what propelled you or compelled you to want to take on that as well.

 Jia Wertz 

So that because I was in the business operation side of the fashion industry for almost 20 years, and then I launched Studio 15. Forbes asked me to write for them when I was doing that. So it was it aligned exactly with what I was doing at the time. And so I got my Forbes column, but it was actually during Forbes did a story about the nonprofit organization that we partner with for Studio 15. Because we donate 5% of all of our sales to kleos microfinance group. And they’re an organization that my brother is the executive director of, and they give micro finance loans to women in Uganda at the moment. So people who really wouldn’t have access to any kind of funding to start their own businesses, and it’s to help them get out of poverty. We partnered with them. And so Forbes is doing a story about kleos. And I met with them about this and about the organization that we donate to and why. And in that whole process, they offered me my own column because of the work I had done in the past with other major fashion brands, and then launching my own company. So this was years ago. And so I took on that because of course just like the podcast aligned with the documentary this aligned with what I was doing at that time. And I’ve continued to write for them, because they’re just such a great platform to have and they’re just such a great place to work for. So even though I don’t do too much work in business operations anymore, not on that side. Anyways, I still write for Forbes, because I just love love it.

 Lexie Smith 

So in skimming through some of your recent by lines, I saw headlines ranging from and literally read them. e commerce is at the center of the capital diversity equation to the future of PR and getting your story polled, amongst many others. So I’m curious. Today since you’ve been doing this for a long time, what types of topics or beats are you most interested in writing about? So for

 Jia Wertz 

Forbes, I have a specific beat and it’s really the art of entrepreneurship. And so that is what I focus on. And it’s ecommerce growth strategy so tailored towards e commerce as much as possible because that’s What I was doing at the time when I started writing for them, and you know, you mentioned at the beginning dreamers and doers and that has been such a first of all, such a great group of women and secondly, such a great resource of people to interview and talk to, for for so often when I come up with an idea for an article I want to write, I will reach out to that vast group of you know, hundreds of female entrepreneurs and I’ll put it out to them and say I’m writing about this so if anyone has a success story, or has had success achieving x, y, z, reach out to me and if it you know jives with what I’m writing, I’ll include it and so I often get a lot of inspiration and a lot of people from that group as well.

 Lexie Smith 

Yeah, that I mean, I’ve only been in dreamers and doers for a couple quarters now and I’m just blown away by everything that they offer you guys again, back to I think it was Episode 34 if you want to learn more about the community both Jia and I are in it and it sounds like we both give it a high recommendation. So yes,

 Jia Wertz 

Gesche has become such a great friend and I’ve been in it I think since 2015. 

 Lexie Smith 

Oh gee, yeah, my new kid on the block over here just amazed by everything she’s done, but you’ve really seen the full growth of it, what it was and what it is today.

 Jia Wertz 

Yeah, and it’s been amazing from the beginning. And I think that’s what makes you know, just be good communities in general dreamers and doers and any other communities that are really function well and work well. It hasn’t changed and like the the beliefs of what she wanted to the community she wanted to build. And kind of the rules that you wanted to maintain have always stayed the same since the beginning and I think that makes such a huge difference because it cultivates a specific type of person and a specific group of people and then you complement each other and I think that’s what they’ve been able to do which really works for them.

 Lexie Smith 

really beautiful Um, so no, this is not paid for by dreamers and doers we just really love it. So okay ecommerce growth strategies looking into because we’re we’re recording this in September of 2021 depending on when you guys are listening, looking into q4 and 2022 are there any kind of topics that you’re interested in learning about for anyone listening who might fit in that category?

 Jia Wertz 

Well you know going into holiday season free commerce which is around the corner which we’ll be covering starting now. That’s something for sure how people are creative ways that they’re looking to grow their business or actually regain business after the pandemic has really you know, squashed so many not only brick and mortar businesses but even a lot of e commerce because people don’t go out as much so you don’t need going out closing you there’s so many shifts that have happened so anything that pertains to that I’d be very interested to hear about.

 Lexie Smith 

Okay, and anytime I have someone who is a member of the media on the show, I like to ask a couple of preferential rapid fire questions just for anyone listening to actually know you know what you prefer so they are clogging your inbox with unnecessary pitches. So are you game to go through just a quick few of them real quick?

 Jia Wertz 

Yes, absolutely.

 Lexie Smith 

Okay, so again, no right or wrong answers This is all your preference. So first question, are you even open to being called pitched? Or do you only read pitches from people you know,

 Jia Wertz 

90% of the time I read pitches from people I know or whoever referred by somebody I know 10% of the time if the subject line is amazing and really relevant and timely I will open the whole pitches as well.

 Lexie Smith 

Ok, subject lines, any formats that stick out what makes an amazing amazing subject line.

 Jia Wertz 

I really love things that include stats and research that has been done anything that is very, very timely and nothing that is like clickbait ish that just completely makes me not open.

 Lexie Smith 

great insight. Okay, certain days a week you prefer to be pitched

 Jia Wertz 

you know, no, I’m sure there’s other people that would have a good answer for this but considering I have a four year old and I’m on his schedule, I wouldn’t think that my schedule I am often checking these at 1am just FYI. So during the day I don’t always get to check them but like nighttime, I do and so it doesn’t really matter. They usually collect them till then and then I kind of just eyeball them.

 Lexie Smith 

I think it’s a great reminder that you guys journalists or people to write they have lives going on. Um, so how do you feel about follow ups? Are they Okay, are they not okay?

 Jia Wertz 

Yeah, I think they’re absolutely okay. I think they’re actually great because they’re a great reminder. But I would say after one or max two follow ups if you don’t hear back you got to let it go. Because then you become you know, the annoying person, somebody’s inbox and you never know when you want to reach out to this person again, so you don’t want to annoy them before they got to know you, you know.

 Lexie Smith 

Yep, absolutely. Biggest pitch turnoff, so things If you open that pitch, and you see you’re like, nope, you mentioned one click bait anything else,

 Jia Wertz 

you know, I have had some people sometimes and even sometimes have opened their emails, and then their follow up, they get very negative, like, this is the last time I’m going to reach out. Or, you know, if you don’t want the story, I’ll take it elsewhere. And then it’s like, I’ll never open your emails. I did not not respond on purpose the first time it could be because my son was screaming for me or it could be because the story wasn’t relevant for for at the time, or I even pitched it in the editor said no, there’s just so many reasons that it could have been. So if it gets negative at all, you know, usually I will just block that person from my fall together. Yeah, you

 Lexie Smith 

would think that that’s common sense. But no, it’s it’s not Um, okay. last little. It’s not it’s not at all. Yeah. And so like, opposite of that. Pitch turn ons, anything you mentioned you like stats and research. Any other things you like, you know, it could be links or certain assets, they include any other little tidbits.

 Jia Wertz 

Yeah, it’s really great if not as attachments because it, you know, takes up too much space in your inbox. But if they put a Dropbox link that has the assets that you would need for that article, like high res images, you know, any graphs or anything else, with who the photographer, photographer, photographer credit should go to, because the easier you can make our jobs, the better the chances are that we can take the time to write this piece. You know, for one, I was gonna say something else, and it slipped my mind about things I like. Oh, God, if I remember, I’ll come back to it.

 Lexie Smith 

Yeah, no worries at all. Okay, so thank you for very candidly showing or telling us what you like. I’d actually love to flip the perspective a bit. Because while you’re saying it’s not necessarily your main focus right now, Studio 15 is your company. And in looking at Studio 15, you guys have gotten a lot of press, you’ve been seen in Adweek, Forbes, Inc, access hollywood Sports Illustrated, the link goes on. I’m curious from the business owner perspective, if any of these press mentions or just press mentions in general has done anything for your brand?

 Jia Wertz 

Definitely definitely builds credibility for one, which then drives people because when you’re a new brand, and nobody has heard of you, it’s hard for consumers to determine whether you’re a legitimate brand, or just some other website, you know, in the world wide web that they shouldn’t be clicking on, right. So there’s that, of course reviews and you know, customer reviews and Google reviews help and everything. But it definitely helps to have that credibility when you have publications that have covered your business. And then customers trust it, and then they shop. So in turn, it increases sales. So there’s definitely that aspect,

 Lexie Smith 

where you are on the frontlines pitching for coverage that it can be organically. Did you have someone in house or a firm? How did those placements come to be?

Jia Wertz 

In the very beginning, I had a firm, and they got to some and then once I learned the process of pitching through working with the firm, then I took it in house and I did most of it myself. I had hired interns along the way sometimes here and there. But it was of course over you know, seven years, but I did I did a lot of it myself after.

Lexie Smith 

So quick tips that you found to be successful when you were pitching then.

Jia Wertz 

Yes. Oh, and this is the other one I was gonna mention earlier. I’m so glad you said that. One, read what the writer has written in the past really read it, I mean, read at least three or four pieces. And when pitching, often people will do this. I see this so often. And I did it in the beginning too. It’s a mistake I made, I would see something someone wrote and I would think oh my company would have been perfect for this article. I wish they had me in there. And then when I pitched I would say you know I read this article. If you’re writing anything else similar, here’s what my company does. But really now that I’m on the other side writing the articles, it’s never happens that I publish one article and then publish a similar one right after that’s just never ever happens. Maybe I’ll publish something on a similar topic six months down the road a year down the road, but immediately after it’s never gonna happen. So it’s good to read what people have written. And then really put some thought behind it and do some research and think of something that’s relative to their beat, but not something they’ve written recently and then pitch that for your company because they need fresh new articles. They can’t be writing the same thing over and over again. And that’s a mistake I definitely spent a lot of time making just constantly pitching similar things. Nobody was gonna write that story again. They just wrote it.

Lexie Smith 

Yeah, that’s gold. Pure gold. I see this a lot too. And I get it right like I get it intuitively if you don’t know the full process and you’re new to the pitching world. Perfect that’s you know, they just wrote an article exactly like me like maybe even though edit that nag me and when that just doesn’t really happen. Would you say something That would be okay. Let’s say they just wrote a round up broadly on travel gifts. I don’t know where that came from. That’s just what came out of my brain. Could you reference that article and say, Are you doing any more gift style roundups in the future? Or do you even think that’s too similar?

 Jia Wertz 

I would think that’s too similar. Because again, even if you go Google somebody, a writer you love. How often do you see them do two gift round ups back to back? Or even even unless it’s Christmas time? I guess, I suppose. Right. And unless it’s a publication that does a lot of these roundups, rarely what I see anyone doing two of them even within a couple months of each other, so I would think it’s going to be a lot of your time wasted writing the pitch, sending the pitch to not get a response, you know,

 Lexie Smith 

yeah. Oh, this is great. I hope everyone’s really, really listening. Because I do think this is this is a very common mistake. And I’m just thinking through to and I’ve certainly seen people, people do it myself. So thank you for highlighting that. The last kind of thing I want to get into before we begin to wrap it up is just hearing more about what you’re working on right now. What is something that’s lighting you up? Is there a new film is the podcast, you know, what’s going on in your world that you would love to put on? You know, my listeners radar?

 Jia Wertz 

Yeah, for sure. So So two things, my film that’s on amazon prime, it’s called conviction. And it’s a short it’s a 22 minute, almost like an episode documentary about Jeffrey Deskovic. And for anyone who hasn’t heard of him, he was a 16 year old in New York City. I’m sorry, in Peekskill, New York State, and he was wrongfully convicted of a murder a girl in his school was raped and murdered, and the cops came to a school. And some of the students said, you know, talk to Jeff because he’s kind of an odd kid. And just that one statement from from children made the police go talk to Jeff and then they eventually coerced a confession out of him by really grooming him to be a suspect. In this case, he wasn’t he knew nothing about it, he had nothing to do with it. And that’s what my film was about. And so now I’m working on the feature length version of Jeff’s story and so that feature length film will come out next year. Thanks to the pandemic It was supposed to come out this year but everything got delayed and it goes much deeper into the justice system and what went wrong and how does this happen? How does somebody falsely confessed to something so horrific they didn’t do and why once you get caught up in the justice system, is it so hard to write that wrong? Because once you get convicted it’s nearly impossible to get that overturned? And so it really it’s been a really interesting experience and then the other thing I mentioned earlier is the podcast speaking of crime is looking into Gaby potatos case which has been you know, all over the news obviously. And it’s been almost full time job to keep up with what’s happening in that case and it’s so unfortunate that she you know, was most found murdered it’s so so sad and and now her boyfriend is nowhere to be found. And so we’ve just been following that and reporting on that in hopes that we can, you know, help in any way and raise awareness although it seems when we started this it wasn’t all over the news and now it’s everywhere So

 Lexie Smith 

yeah, I mean, you’re following in real time. I mean, they just found her remains what was it this week or last week? I mean, very recently.

 Jia Wertz 

Yeah, yeah, it was just on the 19th I believe.

 Lexie Smith 

Yeah, wow. Okay, we will put all of these links in the show notes. It’s we’re recording here on a Friday I now officially have a short on my agenda to watch this evening and I very much look forward to seeing the feature length to when that comes out. So definitely please keep me posted.

 Jia Wertz 

I will for sure.

Lexie Smith 

So my last question to bring in a whole nother topic since this is the pitch in and sippin podcast you know, we talked about a lot of things we talked about pitching now what can we find you sipping so what is your favorite beverage alcoholic or non alcoholic? Of course,

Jia Wertz 

so non alcoholic it’s always only water. always always always. Alcoholic. It is a bloody Caesar, which is a Canadian drink. And it is so delicious. It’s like a bloody mary but it’s way better. Yeah, because it’s so hard to find in the states and so I make them at home mostly because he really can’t find them and when I can’t find them all have a Corona.

Lexie Smith 

What is what’s in a bloody Caesar?

Jia Wertz 

It’s like a bloody mary except for it’s made with commodities and so it’s tomato and clam juice and so everyone is always like ooh disgusting. But it is just a hint of it and it’s like salty and spicy and it’s so delicious.

Lexie Smith 

Oh my god, that is a total first on this show. So that’s that’s amazing.

Jia Wertz 

I’m happy to make you one. 

Lexie Smith 

I would say more from the mimosa girl than a bloody mary girl but I’m always down to try something once so I’ll try something we’ll try it once we’ll see how it is. That’s the missing ingredients that’ll that’ll turn turn the corner for me on the whole bloody department.

Jia Wertz 

Well I hate Bloody Marys by the way.

Lexie Smith 

Oh, that’s promising then so maybe that is like the little extra ingredient that’s needed. Yeah, maybe. Amazing. Okay, so last little question. Where can people go to find out more about you and all the different projects you have?

 Jia Wertz 

Yeah, the best two places is either my website which is just Jiawertz.com it’s j i awertz.com. And Instagram, which is Jia docs, docs, like short for documentaries. docs

Lexie Smith 

perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It’s Friday, so Cheers. 

Jia Wertz 

Thank you so much like the cheers.

 

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