How Bustle Digital Group’s Editor-in-Chief Drove Massive Digital Traffic with Kate Ward of The Dipp

Episode 39 – Pitchin’ and Sippin’ – How Bustle Digital Group’s Editor-in-Chief Drove Massive Digital Traffic with Kate Ward of The Dipp 

SPEAKERS

Lexie Smith, Kate Ward

 Lexie Smith 

 I am so excited to welcome you into the pitchin and sippin podcast. I know you must have a million things on your agenda today so the fact that you were willing to carve out some time to chat means the world we’re gonna dive into all things career in a moment. But here first I always love to kick things off by asking you what do you enjoy to do outside of work?

Kate Ward 

Oh, wow. I mean, it’s a lot of eating. It’s a lot of a lot of sipping stuff a lot of drinking gum joking. But no, but I do I do enjoy like restaurant food culture, all that kind of thing, but I also am an avid runner. And I enjoy hiking with my husband and you know hanging out with my cat and watching TV Of course, I mean, that’s like the basis of my my whole business that I that I am working on.

Lexie Smith 

 I like eating I mean, who doesn’t really right? Yeah, so what’s your favorite food then? What type of food I mean?

Kate Ward 

Oh my god. I am a cheese and carbs girl so I will eat anything with cheese any pasta anything. I’m actually not a meat eater that much. I’m not I’m not vegetarian I could be but for me it’s like all about just pasta. As much as possible. A mac and cheese that is the best of both worlds.

Lexie Smith 

You are literally a girl after my own heart. My favorite food of mine has cheese and carbon pizza is pretty high up number one on my list. But pasta. macaroni and cheese specifically is like a vice cheese.

Kate Ward 

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Although like, you know, it’s I don’t believe in guilty pleasures. I only believe in pleasure. So I don’t take guilt for  it.

Lexie Smith 

I love that. And so where is home base? 

Kate Ward 

In Brooklyn. So I’m in Brooklyn, Park Slope. So I lived in New York for about 14 years, 14 years now. So ever since I graduated college, I moved right out and have been here ever since. And I love it was here through the pandemic. Can’t imagine leaving. And you know, so I’m here. I’m here to stay.

Lexie Smith 

You’re here to stay. So are you from the East Coast originally, or where Where’s home?

Kate Ward 

I actually I grew up in Minnesota. So my parents are from this area, but they moved out there to you know, raise the kids and everything. So I had a very Midwestern upbringing, and but always knew that, you know, I was going to go into this path of media. And where was media? It was in New York. So I went to Chicago for college. You know, while there, it was funny, we had to kind of choose our paths, right? You’re either a newspaper reporter, a magazine reporter or a TV reporter. And this was this is, you know, back in the day, so that’s why those were the only three options. But it basically meant that, you know, two of those paths, you could end up anywhere and one path you ended up in New York. And so obviously, I wanted to choose the one that brought me to New York.

 Lexie Smith 

Okay, well, boom, perfect, perfect segway, so let’s officially get into here. So everyone just heard your bio at the top of show, and you have such an incredibly successful and impressive career. Let’s rewind it back. So probably post graduating in Chicago, and you were at Entertainment Weekly. So what was your role here and talk us through a little bit of the day to day?

 Kate Ward 

Yeah, so when I was when I was in college, I my my whole dream was to be a celebrity reporter like that was going to be what I did, I was going to write celebrity profiles, I was going to have these like great inventions in the vanity fair, these pieces that everybody should really be cover pieces. And ew was a publication that I loved dearly. And it felt like it was a really good place to start. And so I really targeted all my energy towards there. So while I was told in college to you know, think about working for trade magazines, or anything else you could do first I kind of was like, Nope, I’m going to go Entertainment Weekly 100%. So I found my way there an internship ended up getting hired at the magazine. And then while I was there, it was pretty clear that things were starting to move to digital. And I was a fan of the digital and it’s hard to believe that back then it was one on ones It was probably yes. 2007 2008 around that timeline. There was still a lot of snobbery around digital in the industry. And so people didn’t want to work with it. You know, some of my older colleagues didn’t really want to touch digital kind of felt like the ugly stepsister where I was all over it in a way that you know, I loved reading anything online, I wanted to contribute to anything online. So I was given a bunch of what people would think was bitch work of having to do a lot of the online stuff. And I was ecstatic about it. And I think that that put me in this position for people to say, Okay, well, you should do more of it. And I sort of realized that this is the direction that I should go and I knew the industry was headed that way. I knew it’s probably going to be good for my career. So I ended up moving to EW.com and worked there as a I’ve got one remember my title was assistant news editor or something. I was basically in charge of making sure everything went up that day. You know that we were on top of every news story that if anything broke would be 100% on it. Um, and yeah, and I worked with all the writers there and everything and got a really good education on doing things quickly and doing things online and just working with writers and working with people and you know, trying to start manage managing to a degree.

 Lexie Smith 

Okay, and so from ew.com com. You then moved on to hollywood.com is still in this entertainment sphere. And eventually you became the editor in chief of Bustle digital group, which, Holy moly, you are a badass in every way possible. Oh, I have so many questions. But first, I want to make sure everyone knows what we’re talking about. What is Bustle Digital Group, if people haven’t heard of it, can you talk about some of the publication’s under that umbrella?

 Kate Ward 

Yeah, so it is a media conglomerate. It used to target exclusively women, but no longer that is the case. So it when it started, when I when I was there, I would didn’t even have a name. I was you know, pre launch, we’d had nothing. So we were just the one site bustle. And then after a few years, you know, I recognized this opportunity with young millennial moms that weren’t really being covered by sort of more of the coastal publications that didn’t realize that there’s a lot of 24-25 year old women who had children because obviously, in New York, that’s not a path that many people take. So I launched Romper while I was there. And then we got into the m&a game and we started acquiring publications like elite daily, the xo report, mug.com, and that’s when I decided to leave. But afterwards, they have the outline. Actually, Gawker was acquired when I was there.

Kate Ward 

But the outline there’s a few others that have happened since I left that I can’t remember a nylon, I think. And so now it’s a big conglomerate of a bunch of different digital sites. So you’ve probably landed on one a buffalo digital curbside, at some point. It was we built the infrastructure that was a you always you always will see us. So yeah, so it’s it’s a great big site and a series of sites. And it’s a great company, and I’m super proud to have been a part of it.

Lexie Smith 

Well, you weren’t just a part of it, you were the editor in chief. And that is such a coveted role in the world of journalism and media. Can you give us a quick overview definition of what exactly an editor in chief typically does, but then Part Two to that what you were doing as an editor in chief.

 Kate Ward 

So it’s hard to say right, because it’s such a different I think it’s a different title. Depending on where you are, you have your traditional editors and chief which are like at, let’s say, at the monthly Conde publications, and these people are often figureheads, they are, you know, going and attending lunch meetings with advertisers, they are, you know, doing PR meetings, you’re trying to secure somebody on the cover of their magazines or whatever. So that in a traditional sense, is what the editor in chief is. That’s what you see, when you’re watching movies. And you’re you know, you see some ROM coms about magazines, that that is what you recognize. So my role was quite a bit different from that. You know, I obviously was part of the launching founding team at bussel. So I helped to do all things like name it, get the identity down, you know, figure out what the content strategy would be, figure out what our social strategy would be all those types of things. So that was primarily my job initially. And then it became my job then to launch something else and do it new again, and then hire up a team and build these these publications into something that would scale and have a team of 10 plus people what have you. And then, you know, once I got to start doing the m&a work, then my job became sort of helping to identify these opportunities that we could have to acquire a new company, figure out what how they could fit within our ecosystem and how they could fit in within the larger media landscape. And flip those things over and, and make them something new and different and exciting and work with all departments to make that happen. So editor in chief is a weird title for what I did, because I didn’t really touch eventually, I didn’t touch any content. I wasn’t I wasn’t writing headlines, I wasn’t doing anything. Instead, I was sort of just anything really new content said I was just sort of sitting, sitting above content and a sense of trying to figure out what is next to help us grow and help us mature as a company. So that’s a very long answer to a question. That is, it depends on where you are.

Lexie Smith 

Yeah, no, that was such an amazing answer, actually. And I appreciate you taking the time to go into all the different nuances of it. Because, you know, part of the point of this show, right is to educate people on the landscape of what is media. And I was doing some research before this interview, of course, and I quite literally stole this little line from your quote unquote resume, aka LinkedIn. So it says using a data informed approach. You grew bustles UVs to 50 million plus in four years. So super, super simple question, I’m sure, what is the secret sauce to driving website traffic and creating truly engaging content? Or some of the secret sauce tips?

Kate Ward 

Yeah, I mean, there’s no need to be secret about them. Because it’s stuff that a lot of people already know. And it’s just doing it as doing it in tandem with one another. I think that’s the hardest part. So we believe very strongly in diversified traffic. So that was the first thing. So in 2013, 2014, 2015, that era, if you remember being on, you know, Facebook, those days, there were a lot of those publications that would do the, you can’t believe what happened next type thing and all of that, right. And they grew their whole followings on Facebook and Facebook exclusively. So what happened is, you know, after the election, Facebook started to sort of backtrack from all of the news media and turn off the the like the, you know, water flow a little bit to them. And so you had publications like upworthy, that was one of the biggest sites on the web to no longer existing. Right. So what we believed in is making sure that yes, you have the Facebook traffic, yes, you have search traffic, yes, you have Instagram traffic, yes, you have Apple news traffic, make sure you’re going everywhere, where people are, and then when something happens, there’s an algorithm change or something, then you know, you’re not, you’re not susceptible to any sort of large problems. So that was one thing that we, you know, needed to do. Another thing was to build our sites, and our sites are multiple sites with an infrastructure that could both support traffic but as fast as possible. And you know, considering we were advertising, we were advertising channels as well, being able to integrate those programmatic ads and everything in a way that was not very disruptive, and would be, you know, thought of as good content by a search platform like Google, right. So a lot of what we did was try to ensure that the product was built for these platforms that it could integrate into whether it was Facebook really easily, easily search really easily, or Apple news really easily. So it was flexible. So that’s another piece. And then the other piece is just ensuring that you’re honestly on top of things. And there’s a little bit of like, you’ve got to experiment, you’ve got to create a good bit of content to be able to see what works. And you have to be first to a lot of things. So when something happens at 10pm, you know, we’re gonna be there giving you full coverage. And that’s not just to sort of activate the traffic and get the eyeballs. It’s also to create a good experience. And I think one of the reasons why I approached bustle from a content strategy the way that I did, you know, I was tasked with building this woman site. And as a woman, myself, who had a lot of things that I read out there that I love, like decibel, just about my doing only my vocation I actually read at the time, the one thing that dissatisfied me about it was that when something happened, I couldn’t get their take on it until Monday or until, you know, like whenever the next cycle was. And so I ended up going to like CNN or wherever to get this stuff. And I felt like I was like missing that perspective that I really love. And so when I came in at bustle, the goal was how quickly can we get to as 24 seven as possible. And what that ended up meaning early on is, of course, like, you know, I’m not only on the morning shift in the afternoon shift, but I’m also on the night shift. And so when something happened, I was on top of it. And then you know, you eventually built team members, and you get you know, you have people out in LA working different hours. And we even had an overnight editor for a few years, which is insane. But, but we wanted to make an experience for where no matter what was happening, you felt like you can get some sense of community because somebody who felt the same way you did that had the same perspective, was sharing their thoughts in that moment. And I think that that that went a really long way, because we were the only ones doing that at the time. There were many people on that breaking news, particularly from that female perspective. So it’s a conglomerate of things. It’s like you can’t just have one thing and have one thing work, you have to have everything working together and you also need everyone working together. So that means having a good relationship across all of your departments so that everyone can kind of come together and create the best product that they possibly can.

 Lexie Smith 

First, brilliant, of course, everything you just said. How do you stay on top of breaking news? 24 seven, like what sources? Are you just listening to police scanners? Are you sites like how does one even go about being so on top of it? 

Kate Ward 

So I think you know, it was a lot of being on Twitter you know, taking notice thing can you have your push notifications turned on? I mean, it’s enormously disruptive like don’t get me wrong, is a piece of it that for several years, I would be at bars with friends and I’d be like okay, excuse me, hold on. I’ve got to take this out and and do some work on this. I remember when George Zimmerman case was going on when that verdict was read, I think I was on my way home from hanging out with friends on a Saturday night, I think it was a Saturday night. And I, you know, went into a bar just so I could work. And you know, so you have to kind of do things like that. And a lot of times, you might be the only solo person after another, you know, it’s it’s sad that it all involves like, you know, dark events, but um, you know, the the Paris battle clan, you know, attack that happened in 2015. The next morning was a Saturday morning, that’s when ISIS claimed responsibility. And I was pretty much it, I went up. And so and we had two different sites at the time, or maybe even three at the time, I think we only had two sites. And I like wrote up all the pieces for both sites, I posted all the social content for both sides. Yeah. And I was sort of just signing myself like, Oh, my God, I’m doing every single job right now. But like that’s, and that is that my team is amazing. My team was incredible. And so that this is not me saying that I was doing everything by no means there just circumstances when that did happen. And my point is that when you’re at a startup, and you’re trying to kind of beat these big guys out there, the best way to do it is to sort of throw yourself into it 150%. So that’s what we had to do. And it worked. Like that’s the good thing is that it actually paid off. And we found people that really connected with what we were doing. And you know, the 50 million in four years was awesome, it was really great. By the time I left, it was 80 million. So we were able to scale very quickly and scales very large that one of the most fun things I remember when we would be sitting in the office and we had this site that would list the top 100 sites and it would update like every day, and we kept on moving up. First of all, I mean, getting on that list in the first place was incredible. And then seeing it move up gradually and being able to say things like, oh, we’ll just be you know, Fox News like that, that was felt really, really good.

Lexie Smith 

I can only imagine that I have to say this terrible pun, because I just can’t help myself. You have to hustle to keep the bustle. And I could probably keep you here for an hour on this topic. But I want to make sure we flash forward in your life a little bit. You know, after bustle, you became a digital consultant and advisor for some time, before officially moving into your current venture. So I want to talk about that. What is that? What is your current venture?

 Kate Ward 

Yeah, so right now, I’m the CEO and co founder of The Dipp. And digital consultant is a fancy way of saying we took my co-founder and I took some time to relax before we launched something together. So that would just sit. By the way, if you’re, if you’re ever starting something on your own, or anything, it definitely is helpful to have, you know, six months off beforehand, where you can just sort of rest your mind, which is exactly what we did. So, you know, we noticed this opportunity in the industry for a place for really high quality, immersive content surrounding people’s passions. So what we found was, you know, a lot of sites out there particularly focused on entertainment, which is one of my biggest passions. Obviously, I come from a background of entertainment. They are kind of bad experiences at this point, they’re overrun with ads, there also is no social element to them. So when you’re trying to find out information, you’re trying to read something, you go on a site, and it’s sort of like, okay, here’s the information that you’re getting. And that’s it and get out of there, you know, and try not to get a virus on your computer from like, all the pop ups and all of like, the auto playing videos, and all this stuff that you just didn’t sign up for when you clicked on something, right? Like, that is not what you wanted, you were trying to get information, you were trying to get a good story, you’re trying to feel connected with something, and you kind of walk away with this bad experience. And so, you know, we saw publications, like the athletic, be able to break into the subscription space and start creating a product that is truly for consumer and not for an advertiser, not for you know, Facebook, not for Google, but instead for a true consumer. And, you know, we said we can do that with entertainment, we can be the sole person in this space. And you know, we still pretty much are trying to create this product or marketing this product. That is a great experience for entertainment fans. So if you go on the site today, you know, it’s very much focused on reality TV, which is one of our passions. So that is sort of our first Avenue in particularly because reality TV is treated so poorly by other sites, it really is just such a bad experience if you go on anywhere else and try to read anything about Bravo or anything. And we’ve added a community element that we’re going to be continuing to develop. We have a ton of podcasts now to surrounding the reality space. And we’re really excited to to be in the future building community around those as well because you really can’t get that at all, you know, like you were listening. We’re doing a podcast right now. Somebody could be listening to it and they might want to talk to to you or something, and they can’t do that. And so we want to be able to solve that problem too. So. So that’s like, that’s, that’s what we’re building. And we’re very young, we launched in about november of 2020. So we’re still kind of a baby, but super excited about the growth that we’ve seen, we have some great subscribers who really love what we’re building, and we just are very excited about it. So that’s, that’s what we’re doing at the time at this moment. 

Lexie Smith 

So during those six months of rest, you know, you have this incredible idea, what from a business standpoint, were some of the first key elements or components that you and your co-founder had to focus on and work on, in order to really take this from idea to an actual living and breathing business?

Kate Ward 

We had to fundraise, that was one thing. And and so we, you know, we knew that we had to be able to work with people that could create really great content, and that takes money, you know, so. So we went out and started fundraising in March of 2020. If you believe that, what a time, what a time to do that. It actually was extraordinarily easy. And it spoiled us completely, it took us three weeks. And we had, we raised two and a half million dollars. And I think part of it was the pandemic helped. And actually a huge way with the fundraise itself, because we suddenly went from this place for we’re gonna have to fly out to San Francisco and do a bunch of meetings and go from place to place and travel and all the stuff to doing these, these zoom meetings, which were quick, which were back to back. And it was a weird time. And it’s a precious time, because I don’t think we’re gonna get back to it. Again, we’re now I think zoom is very transactional. And it’s very, you know, I think there are problems with how you actually connect with somebody over zoom, because it feels very, it just doesn’t have that same in person feel to it. But back then, everybody was so you know, confused as to what this world was, where it was going, what was happening, you know, people were using zoom for the first time their kids and dogs were running behind them, that it actually added this layer of vulnerability to the conversation where you got to connect really quickly with the person you’re talking to. So whereas usually I would go into a fundraise meeting with somebody have a very surface level perspective of them and really not know what’s going on behind, you know, what I see right in front of me, I got this huge perspective behind, you know, some of these VCs, and they learned a lot about me in the process, too. And so it allowed that that connection to deepen really quickly. And it made it very fun in a weird way. Like, it was a very weird time, because it was like the one distracting thing that was distracting you from this pandemic, that was actually kind of fun. But um, but unfortunately, I think that that time is is the thing, God, we’re past March 2020. But I think the zoom, like the pleasantness surrounding like the zoom connection, I think is now a thing of the past. But first we need to do is we had to get money in the door. And so that was our first focus. And, and it happened pretty quickly, like I said, and then we just got to building and then it became about trying to figure out like, what does our content look like? What does our site look like, we need to find an engineer to build this for us. And you know, we found a great engineer that summer, who is her director of engineering who’s fantastic. And then, you know, just kind of got ourselves to a place where we were able to launch it within six months, which is a very quick timeline. So we’re proud of that, too. We’re able to push things out pretty quickly. We do things fast. If you haven’t, if you haven’t picked up on that we are very, we’re very, very much about speed.

Lexie Smith 

Yeah, true through and through startup. So what was Oh man, I have so many questions. Which one? Do I want to ask? Let’s do this. I’m fascinated about the subscription model. I think you nailed it on the head with how annoying content can be when consuming content on the web, especially for entertainment. And like, like you called out not wanting to get a virus. So looking forward, do you think that this is going to become more and more common? Do you guys think this will still be a niche side of the industry? When we just look at the media landscape overall, in the future of digital content? Do you see it really headed this way? Or what are your general thoughts?

 Kate Ward 

Absolutely. I mean, I think we’re gonna have maybe a hybrid in some places. So I think it’s very, very difficult for companies that are advertising based models to pivot to subscription. There’s so many things that are difficult about doing that. And so I do think that there is going to be some places that are going to stick to that model. If it works for them, it works for them. They don’t have to go anywhere else. And then you’re going to have some places that are going to have to do half and half in some ways, which to me, we are we already see that. You know, we see there, there are sites out there that have advertising but then also have a paywall. To me that is a less than satisfying experience. Because if I’m paying for something I want it to be presented to me in as clean a way as possible. But I do think what we’re going to see is it’s less on the side of like publishing and more on the side of the consumer, they have to accept it. And we are getting to a point in which they are going to accept it. And that’s because they’re going to be seeing it more and more out there. So whereas like five years ago, you see a paywall, and you’re like, fuck this, I’m, you know, like, no, this is the internet, I’m gonna watch, I want what I want and give it to me for free. Now you’re seeing it more and more. So the expectation is okay, I might have to pay for something that I consider an asset in my life. And, you know, so we’ve seen that the athletic, it works in a consumer model. You know, we even see places like Cosmo, now it’s pay walling, its content, you know, so of Cosmos pay walling, its content, you know, everybody else out there is gonna start doing it, too. So then the consumer has to decide where am I putting my money, and they’re gonna be putting their money in the place where the experience is the most satisfying?

Lexie Smith 

Yeah, I feel like I run into paywalls every single day. And I actually sometimes lose track because I will bite a bullet. And even if it’s just that one article, I want to see I’ll, I’ll sign up, and then all of a sudden, I’ll forget that I signed up, and then I look at the invoice at the end of the month. But it is true, once you’re in there, though, it’s a lot, you know, it can be a much more pleasant experience. So I’ve certainly seen it from the consumer side, it’s something my clients have been experiencing more in enemies and makes total sense. And, you know, journalists work hard, they should be compensated. And if the, if it’s either being bombarded by ads, or that I think it’s, you know, you nailed it on the head, we just have to get used to it, right?

Kate Ward  

Well, I also want to be able to add more to the experience than just writing to, you know, like, content is great. And I love that we’ll put putting on a lot of podcasts, our podcasts are all free right now. Because by the virtue of you know, that’s the way we present them right now. But, but we will like bonus episodes in the future and everything that will be part of our membership package. But beyond just those pieces of content, you know, I also want to be able to really bring this community into things too. Like, I really find it unsatisfying that when I finish an article, I can’t speak to somebody about it, I just have to sort of, you know, go on, maybe put on Twitter, and it’ll be going out there into the world and nobody will care because I’m the only one talking about it right now, you know. And so I want to be able to build something where people feel like they actually have a home for this. And that’s got a way out there. Like that used to be the way the early internet was like on Ew, calm, you send comments to all these people that would just interact with each other every day. And that’s gone. And so we want to be able to build that within what we’re doing to and that should be part of the membership package. So it’s not just you, you come to the depth and you’re getting content, you’re also Well, you’re going to be getting so much more, it’s all a building process. And you just get to be the first person in the door.

Lexie Smith 

You go well, there’s a community component that sounds exactly like building which is so in my opinion, where the future is, and it’s continuing to head. And I am huge I’m trying to think of I’ve ever admitted this or talked about this on this show. I’m a huge reality TV fan, and I love a good trashy show. It’s actually I’m pretty excited to to really start diving in more and checking things out. And for everyone else listening who’s curious to do the same? Where can they go to learn more about The Dipp?.

Kate Ward 

So The Dipp.com so it’s Dipp with 2 p’s. So dipp.com and there, you know, you’ll have get prompted to sign up and you can learn about, you know, what we offer. And you know, like I said, you know, we’re still very new, we’re very much a baby site. And you know, we are very excited about what we will become. It’s an awesome site right now, but it’s only going to get better as the months and the years go on. So, you know, we’d like to even treat our early subscribers very, very well. And some of our early subscribers are up for subscriber of the week, we’re one week everybody gets a prize. And so it’s fun stuff like that. We’re trying to figure out more fun things to do to to also get to know our community a little bit more, too. Because everybody’s out there. We have our awesome subscribers and we just want to be able to tighten the gap between us and, and them. So yeah, so you can check us out The Dipp.com. Super fun.

Lexie Smith 

And one more question before we we begin to kind of wrap this up, just because I know there are publicists listening to this. Are you looking actively to be pitched content? Or is it all self curated in house and don’t bother publicists listening?

Kate Ward 

Yeah, so be tipped to kind of publicists, right, so I think, you know, we obviously love to talk to actors and showrunners and people that are, you know, involved in the process of entertainment that we love so much. And we’ve got, you know, great writers, particularly in the reality TV world. So, you know, we’re always open to whatever, you know, I just like talking to people too. We are never the people that are like, shitty the PR people like I know that they’re that is a tough job. I was on the other side of it myself. I was an intern way back in the day and I remember talking to reporters and then being total assholes to me and I was like, I am never gonna be that person. So, so feel free. Yeah, you can chat with us. You know, we’re here to, to work with you in any way and vice versa.

Lexie Smith 

Well thank you. I know there’s entire Twitter feeds that are just dedicated to bashing publicists, which I actually find quite entertaining. But it can be brutal out there. And some of it, you know, maybe is deserved, although I’m a fan of being a kind human under any circumstances. So. And yeah.

Kate Ward 

I mean, we’ve all we’ve all like, fucked up and made like sent an email with the wrong name and stuff and I’m like why would you ever put anyone on blast but it’s it’s, you know I am not one of those people I will not be starting a Twitter thread anytime soon. 

Lexie Smith 

Well thank you. Okay, really the last question I have for you. We’ve talked a lot about pitching. And you mentioned a show you love sipping. So I have to ask what is your favorite beverage? It can be alcoholic or non alcoholic? Of course.

 Kate Ward 

Oh my gosh, I mean, I love I love a Dirty Martini. I love a Dirty Martini. If I’m in New York Dirty Martini if I am in Hawaii, my other place favorite place in the world, then it’s got to be like a lava flow or Mai Tai one of those two, so I drink anything. I don’t care. I like it all.

 Lexie Smith 

So fun. Am I totally wrong for thinking when you say dirty martini? That’s such a New York like a chic New York drink? or New York? Is that totally Is that like a Sex in the City reference that I’m pulling out of nowhere? I don’t know. Yeah, seriously?

 Kate Ward 

Well, I mean, a Dirty Martini is in itself. I know there’s something about it that just feels very like you’re fancy. You’re out for a drink. Like there’s that element to where you’re just you feel you feel good. And and that’s that’s I think the thing that gravitates me towards it in this horrible way. I mean, who knows? Maybe it’s I did see Sex in the City at some point and then that’s why

Lexie Smith 

and I will say I went to Hawaii in May and I think my diet was more lava flows and mai tais rather than actual food consumption. So I’m with you there.

Kate Ward 

Oh my god, it’s so good. Right actually just got back. I was there for two weeks. I took my first vacation in two years and it felt so good.

 Lexie Smith 

Real quick. What Island or islands?

 Kate Ward 

So we went to Maui and Lanai and Kaui so we were gonna run the gamut.

 Lexie Smith 

Quite like my favorite place on this planet.

 Kate Ward 

So this is this is a hanakapiai Beach. If you have been there.

 Lexie Smith 

There’s this beautiful stunning ocean kind of aerial view photo behind her for everyone listening and then just to be cheesy. I will end the show by saying mahalo and thank you for being on the show and Aloha.

Kate Ward 

Thank you so much really had a lot of fun chatting.